Duration: 00:36:00
Mike Rockwood: … on retainer or just dialing an attorney, a specialist attorney and asking a question. But I’m always surprised at how reticent the people are to talk to professionals because they always that think, you know, with billable hours, they’re going to be stuck with a $300 or $400 bill just asking a question of an attorney. But actually, very often, like – because we’re referring so many people to bankruptcy attorneys, gosh, I think we very rarely get any pushback when we tell clients, you know, expect and ask for, you know, a 15- to 30-minute interview free of charge. And sometimes it’s with the paralegal admittedly, but very often they’re extremely knowledgeable, intimately familiar with, you know, the work that the attorney in the practice is doing.
So, it’s really something that you should take advantage of. And even if you’re in any kind of a foreclosure workout be it a, you know, loan modification or a short sale or any other workout, you really should be talking with the bankruptcy or a real estate attorney just to be familiar with those options as well, especially bankruptcy attorneys. A lot of people are so afraid of bankruptcy. There is so much emotional baggage that goes with it. But it can be very helpful and very freeing if you just spend, you know, 30 minutes talking with them about whether or not you would qualify. And if so, how much it would cost and how long it would take, and which debts should be relieved of, and et cetera, et cetera.
All right, anything else we need to say? We can – you can get questions to us for this session at questions@60minuteloanmodification.com. I see we have plenty of them already. That’s questions@60minuteloanmodification.com.
Ryan Rockwood: All right, questions@60minuteloanmodification.com, is it?
Mike Rockwood: Oh, very good. How did you know that?
Ryan Rockwood: I just, you know, a little bit – a little bit sinks in. So, yes, welcome everyone to the call and we got a very – I think it’s members only time [phonetic]. So it’s very small group. So if we can get a lot of questions answered, e-mail them in and/or chat.
Mike Rockwood: And then you get to chat? Okay.
Ryan Rockwood: The chat – the chat looks like it’s going – it’s going to.
Mike Rockwood: Okay. All right, so what we want to talk about before we go to questions this evening is kind of an update on Making Homes Affordable. Now, let’s just kind of recap. The Making Home Affordable program was introduced, gosh, in two weeks it’s going to be a year ago. It’s going to be a year ago.
Ryan Rockwood: In some way, it seems like it’s 10.
Mike Rockwood: Wow, yes, but man. It took absolutely for-freaking-ever to get implemented. It really wasn’t until June or July until we started really seeing anything other than just tell-tale signs of it. And right from the start, there has been a lot of politicking and a lot of, kind of, grandstanding, and just a lot of patronizing. You know, all the banks started their Making Homes Affordable divisions and their imminent default teams. And they all tried to act like they were cooperating, but it was June or July when, you know, even the government started realizing that this was all a sham and that in fact the lenders weren’t lending any money. They weren’t modifying mortgages. They were, in fact, investing that money elsewhere, and we all know how that went. But any rate, the Making Home Affordable Program really has become the prototype for loan modifications. And let’s just review the loan modifications that we’re doing these days are really interest rate modifications.
Principal reduction modifications are really not happening to any large degree. They are happening to some degree in really hard-hit areas particularly on second mortgages and home equity lines of credit. But they’re really not happening on first mortgages and they’re not happening, you know, in anywhere near the kind of proportions that they will need to in the future in order to kind of – in order to really deflate this bubble. So this housing bubble that built up is being deflated by foreclosures and being forestalled and slowed down in its deflation by loan modifications. So short sales, foreclosures, those things are actually letting the air out of the bubble, bringing house prices down. Modifications are propping prices up to slow the deflation. Quit the problem off for a few years. So, while it’s very, very good news to all of us that we’re getting loan modifications, it really doesn’t deal with the central issue and that is that our homes have lost so much value. What the heck are we going to do about that?
And really, it has really just been in recent, you know, like within the recent – within the last year that there has been some academic and some media coverage to alternative ways of thinking about how we should handle the big deflation. You know, it’s about, I believe I’m right in saying it’s about $4 trillion that has been lost in the real estate market. And as of right now, that burden has really fallen to the taxpayer and to the homeowner, the taxpayer in terms of a billion dollars that the government has made available to prop up the financial and housing sector. Well, it’s nearly that as three quarters of a billion. And then also, the millions of homeowners who are staying in their home and honoring their mortgage contracts in spite of the fact that their housing prices have dipped below what they owe. In fact, it’s estimated that within a year from now, as many as 50% of the homes in the United States that have mortgages will be upside down. Just let that sink in. Yes, half of the home. Look down your block. Every other house will be upside down. Now, how do you deal with that?
Ryan Rockwood: Like we had with this guy down here today in the corner. And he’s going to – he’s banned [phonetic].
Mike Rockwood: Yes, they’re going to do that big expansion. I can’t believe it. So, at any rate the Making Homes Affordable became the model because it actually is well thought out like a lot of things this administration is doing. It’s very well thought out. It’s having trouble getting implemented. But here it is a year later and we realized it has become kind of the prototype for all modifications. So, when we explain the qualification criteria for the Making Home Affordable program, we’re really explaining the qualification programs for all mods. And let’s just review.
The reason that a bank cares to modify your loan in the first place is because the government told them they must and that there would actually be writing [phonetic] in the streets if they didn’t. Secondly, they can scoop from $1,000 to $3,000 or more for having modified your mortgage. And thirdly, in many, many instances, it does make financial sense for them to modify the mortgage. And fourth, the cost of their good sold has – because of government monetary policy – has gone down to absolutely nothing. You know what I mean? They borrow money for absolutely nothing. They can still make a really good profit lending it to you at 5% or 6% instead of the 7% or 8% that your mortgage originally was. So there are four really powerful reasons why they should modify, but they have dragged their feet and have not modified and, I mean, it’s a scandal. We all know that, blah, blah. That’s old news, right?
So, let’s talk about the Making Homes Affordable program because I can’t imagine a person in the country. Actually, there should be 32 million people, half of the homeowners in the country should be applying for a Making Homes Affordable modification because it’s just silly not to. If you’re upside down on your home, you have some hardship. You absolutely have to be applying for this modification you paid for with your taxes. It’s available to you and actually, the Making Homes Affordable one is extremely predictable as to whether or not you’ll get qualified. Here are the qualifications. Listen up.
The first one is that the home has to be your primary residence. So, all of us investors, the program doesn’t help us, doesn’t pay the lenders to modify our rental homes. But for the home you’re living, for your first mortgage, if that mortgage was made before a year ago, January of 2009, then you qualified. Now, here’s the important financial qualification. If your mortgage payment, that first mortgage payment on the home that you live in that you own, principal interest tax insurance and homeowners association all added up, divided by your gross household income is 31% or more of that household income. Then you will qualify for the program. It’s absolutely 100% bullet proof. It’s just going to happen.
That’s the beautiful thing about Making Homes Affordable. When we get a client who qualifies for Making Homes Affordable, we know the cash registers’ ringing. They’re going to save and we’re going to earn money on. So, Making Homes Affordable is – can be a life-changing kind of a modification, like, Ryan and I were just talking to a couple this morning. And, I mean, I’m sure this topic is going to come up later and it’s coming up on every conference call we’re on. But this couple had burned through their 401k. This couple had lived off of credit cards now for about nine months. So they have about $45,000 in credit card debts. His income still hadn’t come up, hadn’t recovered from the downturn in the construction industry. And now, they were just now getting around to applying for Making Homes Affordable modification. Problem is his income is too low.
But in fact, the Making Homes Affordable modification would have, if you had applied for it six months ago, cut his mortgage payment in half and virtually guarantee that he would have been able to stay in this house into retirement. The guy’s 58 years old. Both of them are. So, it’s a real tragedy and we gave him some real good advice in terms of how to build up his income to qualify because there are a lot of creative things that people can do to get their income up to qualify for the program. And we’ve had whole segments on that. Ryan, would people be able to go to the site and find one of those old segments on – you know, I think were there eight – the eight tips for raising your income or it was all about getting your income up to qualify.
Ryan Rockwood: You know there are so many good videos and the only way that you can get to them now is by going to the articles tab and going back to …
Mike Rockwood: Searching.
Ryan Rockwood: I mean there is an index over on the right. But, you know, it really takes human editorial time to put those and sort and then resort and – I mean I just haven’t had it. But you know, I’m wondering if – there’s no search function. Yes, I think that going back through that is probably the only way to do it.
Mike Rockwood: That’s the only thing they’d do.
Ryan Rockwood: Yes.
Mike Rockwood: Okay, or e-mail us for information on how to improve your income because I also did write article about it. Okay, so that’s an update on Making Homes Affordable. It is a paper in the modification game. There’s been a rumor for more than a year that you can get a Making Homes Affordable modification without going late. And we do have one experience in which that was the case, one in hundreds. So we’re not believers. And that person took six months and got a pretty good modification. But all of our clients, when they get Making Homes Affordable, on our advice, they’re all in default. So, there you go. All right, are you ready to start into some questions, Rock?
Ryan Rockwood: Yes.
Mike Rockwood: All right. I got a bunch out right here. Let me jump right in and do so.
Ryan Rockwood: All right.
Mike Rockwood: Greg says – oh, no. This is – okay. So that’s– Greg was the big guy that you and I had talked with. Okay, so again this guy had gone through his 401k savings. He’s 58 years old. His income is still down. Run up credit cards and living expenses. His mortgage payment is 90% of his income. The advice we gave him in terms of getting his income up is, number one, rent a room. His income is low and so is his mortgage payment. He lives in an inexpensive part of the country. So, he really doesn’t need that many hundreds of dollars every month. He needs about a thousand dollars to qualify for the program. So, rent a room. How do you spell part time job and how do you spell contribution letter? He happens to have a son who is well-to-do, who has a – who is an attorney and has a good income and his son is going to [indiscernible] write a contribution letter to help him, and he just commits to a one-year or so of a certain dollar amount each month and the bank will accept that as income. And so that’s going to be life changing for these people because this is a house they’ve been in for, like, 15 years and they had every intention of retiring in it. Now, I’m quite sure they’re going to be able to.
All, right. Anne [phonetic] says, “My lender says I will” – oh, you’ll love this Rock – “I will be more likely to get a modification if I make at least one payment now. I am 90 days late. If I do so, will it hurt my chances of getting a loan mod or improve my chances?” Well, Anne [phonetic], here’s the thing you have to think through. If you fully intend to keep this house and you’re going after a loan modification but your full intention is to keep this house, you are going to find a way to keep this house. Then, it doesn’t really matter if you make a payment because all these missed payments are really borrowing from yourself anyway, you know what I mean? They’re all going to get tacked on to your loan anyway, so it doesn’t really matter.
A lot of people have a psychological problem with not making their payments understandable but you got to get over it. But it will not, in fact, help your chances of getting a loan mod. That lender lied to you. It does not help. It probably will not hurt because you are 90 days late. But I would really discourage you from getting current from catching up. It just isn’t going to do you any good. So follow your conscience there. My advice is it’s not going to help your chances. That person is charged with getting you to make a payment.
And there does seem to be kind of a renaissance of efforts to get people to make any kind of payment. I’ve got a property in which I helped in negotiations for over one year with the client and he hasn’t made a payment during that time, and the lender just recently started asking us to make a payment. And it’s so bizarre because, you know, we’re waiting for them to decide if they’re going to take the home or modify and they – they expect us to send them money? You know, how do you figure? So, there does seem to be like a renaissance of asking for money just to get any kind of money they can out of people.
Ryan Rockwood: And it’s such a generally good thing from a business perspective.
Mike Rockwood: Yes, I guess. Yes, get some money, yes.
Ryan Rockwood: Hey, don’t forget this week, let’s ask for money.
Mike Rockwood: Yes. All right, then James says, “I’m buying a short sale.” I like this one where, “I’m buying a short sale and we are one week from closing. Now, my wife and I are starting to get a sinking feeling that maybe the current owner is not moving out and we will have to evict them. We’re in California and that takes a long time. Plus, we’re afraid that they may do damage to the house and then we will be stuck with the repairs. How can we deal with this?” Well, James, I can tell you the – as a realtor, I can tell you the legal way to handle it and as a street smart, short sale buyer and seller, I can tell you what I would do. I wouldn’t even consider closing until it’s vacant. Your realtor should have put that in your offer. It should have been a clear contingency that you will not close until it’s vacant and I would have had an agreement, a clear agreement, between myself and this listing agent that you would, in fact, change the locks on your final walkthrough the day before closing and that you would, in fact, not close if you couldn’t do that. That’s what I would do because you have a huge problem.
A lot of times, people who are in this different situations for so long, let’s see, they kind of get hooked on difficulty and they kind of get immuned to it, so now your seller may very well think, you know what I’m just going to – I’m either going to let this short sale fall apart by staying in the home or I’m going to let it go through and let the new buyer evict me. Either way in California, he’s absolutely right. He can get, like, three months additional time if he place his cards right. And also, if the bank takes the property instead of you getting it, he’ll get cash for keys. He’ll get $2,500 or so just to walk away and not damage the house.
So, I think you’re right. That sinking feeling you’ve got is reality. You’re very perceptive and I would draw a line in the sand right now with the listing agent and just make it clear to them that you’re not becoming the owner. You will stop the transaction if you can’t get the house vacant. And then between you and me, I would change the locks. I don’t even know if I would tell them I’d do that. I would just go and have it done. You know what I mean, the day before closing? And if you can’t get it done, I’d be real suspicious because you didn’t think he’d come in that morning. They can literally squat, you know, even though the property is empty, they could come in and squat that day, that morning.
Ryan Rockwood: I mean, you know, but anyone can do that anywhere.
Mike Rockwood: Yes. But I mean, I’m getting so – I’m getting so street smart that I would – if I was your realtor, I would actually – I’d be living there and I would – the minute you own the property, I would be in that garage, you know what I mean? I’d have the cars parked in the garage. I’d have all my friends over there visiting me. I would occupy the property right away.
Luke says, “My sister got an audit” – and feel free to bust in if you got some really good ones.
Ryan Rockwood: Okay.
Mike Rockwood: “My sister got an audit done on her loan process and it claims that there are lots of violations now that she has to hire a lawyer to pursue them.” Luke that would depend on what your goal is. If she got an audit because she wanted to sue or thought that she had been, you know, that fraud had been perpetrated on her or predatory lending had been perpetrated, and that she intended to sue the lender, then she does need a lawyer, obviously, to sue them. If, in fact, she got that forensic loan audit as part of an effort or thought on her part that she really wanted a modification, you know, both of those are smart, then I would proceed with the modification and I personally wouldn’t hire an attorney.
What I’d do is I’d send the cover sheet where they itemized the violations. Not the data. Don’t send them all the evidence. But I would send the cover sheet where they itemize all the violations that they found and make sure they see, you know, that it’s from a reputable company, and I would send that to the Legal Department, and I would attach it to the loan mod application, and it would go to the Loss Mitigation Department as well as Customer Service Department and just integrate that into your loan modification and application. And you send the qualified written request to the legal department asking them to respond to it within 20 days and they will. And then within 60 days, they will formally respond to it.
Actually, we had really good luck doing that and that’s what I recommend you doing. But if she really feels that the violations are egregious, that they’re really fraudulent and that she might, in fact, have a real serious claim against the lender. Then, she should get an attorney. That will cost her between $1,500 and $5,000.
Ryan Rockwood: We got one guy at the [indiscernible]. We’re going to talk to him tomorrow. So, actually I have to answer his question in great detail but it might have some relevance for everyone else and that is, he was – he wrote it and he said – he was saying, basically he’s got seven properties and he didn’t know – and he wants to modify them all and what does he have to show on his budget because he’s not paying on his homes right now, so does he have to show his outlay on his budget and he’s hoping – and some are under consideration for a modification. So, obviously, it’s going to be dramatically different if they get approved.
Mike Rockwood: Yes.
Ryan Rockwood: What do you think?
Mike Rockwood: Well, here’s – I will say this about that. Our practice has been to – when you have seven properties to spend them off into a separate profit and loss statement and schedule real estate own that isolates them from your personal budget. And we’ve never had success. In fact, I never have even tried to claim – oh, now as I say that, I realized that isn’t true. Sometimes, when we have a property or two that are in short sale, if they’re in short sale in escrow and you have stopped making payments on them, we have successfully omitted those from any payments – you know what I mean – in terms of the cash equation.
We have routinely claimed like when people have large credit card debt and they – there’s monthly payments, skew their ratios. We have very successfully, frequently, you know, argued that they should not be included because in fact they have stopped paying and then we just show evidence that they’ve stopped paying. So, on credit card debt, we’ve been very successful in omitting that from your budget and with regards to real estate, the only ones – the only times I’ve really tried is when they in fact, in escrow, in a short sale, and you stopped paying. But I guess, you know, and think about it, I guess it doesn’t matter if it is in escrow. If you stopped paying and you have, you know, it’s listed then I would think you could make that case.
Okay, Jill says, “My son paid rent of $500 before he lost his job. Now, he’s unemployed but his unemployment compensation is not enough for him to pay me anything. Otherwise, my income is steady and other expenses are not changed from last year, 2009. Can I claim that as a hardship to qualify for a modification? It really does reduce my monthly income.” Sure, Jill, why not? That’s $500 of monthly income from a rent of a room or whatever, you know, your rent to your son that you no longer get. So that’s a, you know, any kind of change of that magnitude to your budget is an acceptable hardship. So, fire away. I would really encourage you.
A lot of times, it’s – kids, you know, stop paying rent or kids stop making their car payment when you’ve co-signed for their loans so, you know, the parents start making the car payment. It’s elder care that increases. And a word on that too is that I worked with the client recently who was spending a lot of time away from work helping her mom with medical problems. And I pointed out to her that, you know, you really should consider that an expense because, you know, the day that you take off this particular person, the day she took off work, she did not get paid for and she could just as well have hired somebody and, you know, we learned that the going rate in that city was $37.50 an hour for someone to take, you know, your elderly relative to the doctor appointment and get them back home.
So, she did use, you know, we got proof of that and she used that as an increase in expenses, not only a decrease in her income but increase in expenses to justify a hardship claim and get a modification or apply for a modification. I fully expect she’ll get it. So really, any changes, anything that has materially changed in your financial situation that makes making your monthly payment difficult is an acceptable hardship for the Making Homes Affordable program and therefore for any modification program.
Tauna [phonetic] says, “Our situation is about $100,000 upside down. We owe $300,000.” Okay, so she’s saying they owe $300,000. Their home is worth $2,000. Whoa, so their home is, you know, is a full – as declined by a full 33%. “We don’t think it’s unethical for us to just leave and mail the keys to the bank. After all, we lost the down payment we put in and all the money and time we put into fixing this house. What do you think?” Tauna [phonetic], I couldn’t agree with you more but I’m kind of hard – a lot of people are struggling with this moral-ethical dilemma right now because it’s so ingrained into us, you know, that paying our bills is a moral and ethical responsibility. And to the extent that keeping a promise is a responsibility, and is an ethical responsibility, that’s true. But if you think about it, if things change, so do the ethical and moral traffics.
And example is, if I tell Ryan he can go ahead and use my shot gun to go bird hunting next month and Ryan starts to have a period of emotional instability, I mean, serious instability …
Ryan Rockwood: How more can we talk about this?
Mike Rockwood: I don’t think it would be unethical for me to break my promise and say, no, in fact, you can’t borrow my shot gun. So, do you see what I mean? Things and after all, there’s nothing in the mortgage contract that says anything about morals or ethics on either partners – on either parties’ part. After all, you don’t say to them that we will consider it a moral or ethical failure on your part to not let us skip payments if we lose our job. We don’t say to them we expect that it’s going to be morally and ethically bad, negative, for you not to reduce our payments if we get divorced and only one of our income stays in the household.
But we seem to put on ourselves this moral and ethical dilemma that says we can’t exercise that part of the contract that says if I can’t make the payments, you get the house. And that’s what you’re talking about Tauna [phonetic], is you’re talking about exercising a part of a business contract that says, if I can’t make the payments, you get the house. Well, I mean, sorry that the house is less – is isn’t worth what the bank thought it was going to be. Do you know how many actuaries and appraisers and MBAs from Harvard and Stanford and Michigan and UCLA and USC and every other good school in the country they have on staff to help them make good actuarial decisions? They have a lot. They made a lot more enlightened choice than you did and you both made a bad choice.
So, both of you have to suffer and I’m on the side – I’m on your side. I think that it is no more your burden to carry that thing that it is – than it is just to exercise the clause that says, if I can’t make the payments, you get the house. So, that’s Ryan parked on it and sounds like that’s where you are too, Tauna [phonetic].
You got anymore?
Ryan Rockwood: No, that’s – oh, yes. We got one more.
Mike Rockwood: Okay.
Ryan Rockwood: Starla asked how much is a forensic loan audit?
Mike Rockwood: You know the forensic loan audits I’ve seen them for as cheap as $500. But the companies that I’ve interviewed and the ones that I recommend, it seems like the cheapest I can get them to do it for is about $1,000. So, that’s the range rate. This is $500 to like $1,500. And I would avoid some of these outfits that only do a computer-generated one. You really want to know who the auditor is and be comfortable that it’s actually an auditor who investigates business fraud or insurance fraud or, in this case, loan fraud. A lot of those auditors have migrated now to loan audits because there’s so much business in that area right now.
But you can’t just have somebody who pushes a button on a computer. You really have to have somebody who has an instinct for what kind of violations follow from the trivial violations. Because you get these – every loan has trivial violations, what I call trivial. You know, the federal trade commission doesn’t consider them so trivial. But there are no big fines or penalties or there’s no big deal for the homeowner if there’s a violation of this disclosure or that disclosure or this TILA stipulation – Truth in Lending stipulation.
The ones that are really killer are the fraudulent ones, the ones in which there seems to have been a pattern of violation and disregard for the law that endangered the homeowner and fraudulently got them into a loan that put them at risk and has them in this situation and that really takes, you know, that takes a person.
Tammy says, “I saw a video about the purchase of Indymac.” She saw this video.
Ryan Rockwood: Everyone has seen that video.
Mike Rockwood: Yes. I don’t know if you guys – you viewers have seen it but it’s making its way around the Internet.
Ryan Rockwood: Well, we actually e-mailed it out.
Mike Rockwood: Okay, so you may have gotten it from us in recent days. It’s a powerful and well-done video on the farce of the whole Indymac scam. And here’s what Tammy says. “I saw this video about the purchase of Indymac and how the new billionaire owners are fully insured against any losses,” because we all pay them from the government. We pay them for any losses. It’s fully, insured, right? “And they are still getting homeowners to take notes for the short falls.” So they are – I mean, you got to see this video. Can they get in their website, Ryan?
Ryan Rockwood: No. I’ll see if I can pull it up here for the chat.
Mike Rockwood: Okay, yes. You can find it. But anyway, this makes the case in a laughable way about how duped we have been with regards to Indymac. And you know what, that’s just, in spades we were duped with regards to Goldman Sachs and B of A, the whole Merrill Lynch thing, the countrywide purchase in all those VIP loans for senators and – I mean, come on. This is a fiasco in any less civilized country in the world, there would be rioting in the streets. But we’re also civilized and it hasn’t really sunk in yet that we don’t really know how to act. And that’s what Tammy says is, “I have an Indymac mortgage and I really think we should all just stop paying.”
And you know what? Now, wouldn’t that be fun to kind of start a movement to send the government and the banks a message and have a month where we all just declare like, you know, a payment-free month. We should start floating this idea around, Ryan, to where we just …
Ryan Rockwood: That would be awesome.
Mike Rockwood: Yes.
Ryan Rockwood: We’d be really popular.
Mike Rockwood: Yes. It’s a great idea, Tammy. I’m glad you suggested it and we’ll use our forum, we’ll use this quorum, to proliferate the idea and see if we can get some traction on it that we should all get organized and withhold our payments for a month. So what if we all get a 15-point decline in our FICO score. You think that’s going to hurt any of us? Well, if the tight goes down, it won’t hurt any of us.
Ryan Rockwood: I’m trying to get it.
Mike Rockwood: All right, well, for those of you who joined us on Tuesday nights, the call is open to the public so please tell friends and relatives about it. We really enjoy it and after all that’s how we market our services and this is all about, for us, all about earning a living after all. I mean, we do enjoy helping all of you saving money and we love saving money, but we also like to earn money and we would love to help your relatives and friends. So, please take time to pass along our name and our website to them when you hear that they’re having trouble with their mortgage and, I mean, go figure it. I mean, it’s everywhere. It’s going to be 50% of your brothers and sisters, half of them are going to be having problems, so please spread the word about our services if you appreciate it. And if you don’t, you know, don’t come back. You don’t have to tune in.
Ryan Rockwood: Okay, finally, finally, oh my God. Okay, so there is the link that you can watch. Hopefully, if you’re looking you can see that link. There’s a really fun video and, in fact, I was thinking that what we should do is an even shorter one, a minute of it, summarizing it and linking to it.
Mike Rockwood: Yes.
Ryan Rockwood: You know what I mean?
Mike Rockwood: That is a good idea.
Ryan Rockwood: Because it’s still really complicated.
Mike Rockwood: Yes.
Ryan Rockwood: You know what I’m saying?
Mike Rockwood: Yes, you’re right. As simple as it is, yes. We should just go through like four bullet points.
Ryan Rockwood: Yes.
Mike Rockwood: Look at how we got ripped off. Look at how …
Ryan Rockwood: Yes.
Mike Rockwood: All right. So, it’s on the site. You all can see it. For those of you who are on the teleconference, Ryan, can you read off the – there’s the two …
Ryan Rockwood: The only thing that you can do is go to YouTube and search for Think Big Works Small, which is the name of the company that put it out.
Mike Rockwood: Okay.
Ryan Rockwood: Think Big Works Small, first video you’ll see, hit it and it’s just two guys talking and …
Mike Rockwood: You’ll love it.
Ryan Rockwood: Yes.
Mike Rockwood: It’s way fun.
Ryan Rockwood: All right. Anyway, bye everyone. Thank you for so much for tuning in tonight.
Mike Rockwood: Yes, thanks everybody.
Ryan Rockwood: And congratulations on getting a week closer to that mod.
Mike Rockwood: All right. Talk to you next week. Bye.
